Transcript
Suzanne: Well, that night I had a dream about a very large, you know, larger than your average size horse, like a working horse type horse and completely very dark, almost black and just a little white right here on their nose. And in my dream, the horse's name was Charlie.
Neil: That's Suzanne Hagmaier a mother of three living in Colorado. She didn't know it then, but the dream would turn out to be more than just a dream. It would mark the beginning of a transformation, one that would change her life.
Suzanne: So of course, the next day where we all get to now the ranch where all the horses are, and we're walking around. And I see this horse and it it just it looked exactly like the one in my dream. And I thought this is crazy. There's no way. She was very large working horse. She had beautiful feathers, all black white spot on her face. She was on free liberty. No halter, no harness, nothing. She had nothing on her. She was just completely herself, right in in this arena with us, but not really. Paying attention to us.
Neil: Suzanne knows she will be working with a particular horse. She just doesn't know which one. But she's told the horse has chosen her already, which makes her think...
Suzanne: ...these people are seriously crazy. OK, but I'll go along with it. And we're kind of in this circle and we're each teamed up with a coach and we're just all kind of doing our thing. So there were six participants, 6 coaches and one lead facilitator and the lead facilitator said face your partner. So each participant face the coach. And they said focus on your partner.
Neil: Suzanne's coach starts pulling funny faces, trying to make her laugh, and it works, but then the facilitator tells her to focus on herself and the result takes Suzanne by complete surprise.
Suzanne: Ohh my gosh, the emotions that came over me, the tears just started strolling down my face and I thought, what the heck is wrong with me? What is going on? Why am I suddenly so emotional and I just was balling. And that horse just flipped her head. I remember watching her mane was just so long and beautiful. And it just. Ohh swoosh. It was almost like slow motion when I saw it. And of course you know, tears are strolling down my face so I can barely really focus on her because my eyes are just wetter than wet and she starts across the arena towards me. And she's coming faster and faster. And I don't know anything about horses. I'm thinking, what is this horse gonna do when she gets here? Is she gonna stop? Is she gonna, like, charge through me? What? What is she doing? I have no clue what was going to happen. As she got closer to me, she started to slow down and when she got to me, she dropped her head almost to the ground and just leaned right into my chest and I was like ohh. I sobbed and sobbed and sobbed on this horse. I had my arms around her head. Her head is all the way down to the ground. And I'm just laying on her neck, just sobbing. I think in that moment was when all of the sudden, you know this horse had the the ability to allow me to break down my walls and go holy cow I almost died like this was real and it was me. It wasn't somebody else. That I kept telling myself so I can get through it. That's when for me it was real. I almost left my kids without their mom.
Neil: Suzanne says the horse, whose name is Jade and is a large American draft horse breed called a drum, helped to heal her and see her purpose. But before we get into what Suzanne did next, it's important to understand why she ended up in an arena with Jade in the 1st place this week on Living Planet, we explore the power of animals when it comes to healing us humans. My name is Neil King.
Suzanne: Sitting in the car with my daughter, we're just sitting there chitchatting and I just felt this tickle on my neck and I went to scratch it and I was like, Ashley, that I I feel a lump in my neck and oh, mom, it's probably nothing, you know, call your doctor. I said I was just at my doctor's today. They didn't feel anything. Ohh, you know she says it's probably fine. It's probably fine.
Neil: Suzanne calls her doctor to get the lump checked. It's not fine - breast cancer, again. The first time round, she had tried to shield her three teenagers as much as possible. Back then, she had a bilateral mastectomy and breast reconstruction and was back home within a day. This time, though, the surgeon says there is nothing they can do. She's not a candidate for chemotherapy, the surgeon tells Suzanne. They will make her comfortable. She immediately thinks of her kids.
Suzanne: And I just looked at her. I still have three teenagers at home. My daughter's now getting ready to graduate college. And my boys are getting ready to graduate high school and I'm looking at it like you're, I don't know who you're talking to, but it can't be me.
Neil: Suzanne calls her oncologist for a second opinion.
Suzanne: And she said, you know, I don't believe that this is what's going to take you. I'm going to give you the strongest chemo I have and it's going to, it's going to be rough, but I think we can get this. Are you with me? And I said absolutely.
Neil: She wants to keep things positive. Luckily, she's surrounded by family. The chemo room is small, with just four chairs, but they all squeeze in.
Suzanne: My sister came from Pittsburgh and stayed with me for several months, all through chemo, so she was there. My husband was there, my daughter was there. My son would come, you know, would get Wendy's or, you know, something to eat. And we just kind of made it fun.
Neil: Just as Suzanne is finishing her treatment, another woman is starting hers.
Suzanne: They went to access her port to start her chemo and she says is it going to hurt? And my daughter looked at me. I'm going to cry. My daughter looked at me and said, mom, she's all by herself. That broke my heart because I had all the support I had all these people. She's my age. She's, you know, and she had nobody there to hold her hand.
Neil: Suzanne begins talking to the woman.
Suzanne: And her name is Theresa.
Neil: Not wanting to leave Theresa alone and also daunted by the prospect of finishing up her own chemo, Suzanne promises to return.
Suzanne: I did I well, I told her I said yeah, I'll be back with bells on and she just she laughed at me. And she I, you know, I don't think she really thought I was going to come back. It was around Christmas time that year and I had a pair of panties that had little Jingle Bells on it and I showed up and I shook my butt in front of her and they jingled and she just laughed so hard.
Neil: Suzanne begins sitting with other women going through chemo. She becomes close friends with three of them. Sonya, Myra, and Theresa, whom she first sat with. One day Myra has an idea.
Suzanne: And she says, you know, I heard of this organization called Hope Held by a Horse. And I think we should all do it together.
Neil: The organization in the rugged, mountainous Colorado countryside aims to provide emotional support to cancer survivors and those at any stage of cancer. Suzanne is about four years on from her second diagnosis at this point.
Suzanne: You know, in my mind, I had processed it. It was over. It was done with. We're putting. That. Behind us. But they were all very new to it and I thought, well, yeah, I guess we'll go on some trail rides and I'll go and support them. Holy cow, that is not what happened, is not what happened.
Neil: After she comes back from the weekend with the horses and that transformational moment with Jade, Suzanne is determined to change her life and that of others.
Suzanne: That's when for me it was real. I almost left my kids without their mom. I and I think that's what all those emotions were. And as soon as I realized that I thought this is what I want to do, I want somebody else to have the experience that I'm having right now.
Neil: Having never had any involvement with horses before, she trains to become an equine Gestalt coach, and at the end of 2019, Suzanne takes over the running of Hope Held by a Horse.
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Humans emotional bond to animals dates back millennia. They're central to ancient mythologies, folklore, and religions. Some of the earliest art is cave paintings of animals and humans interacting with animals. We domesticated our best friend, the dog over 15,000 years ago, but do we know why we are so attached to animals?
Leanne: No, but there are some hypotheses.
Neil: That's Leanne Nieforth with an assistant professor of human animal interaction. At Purdue University in the US state of Indiana.
Leanne: So first I think there's something called the biophilia hypothesis, which essentially means that humans are.
Neil: That's basically the idea that our fondness for nature is down to our evolutionary history. We lived immersed with other animals and the natural world for most of human existence. But in the modern world, we spent a lot of time away from it. So we feel good when we reconnect. Another idea is linked to what's called attachment theory.
Leanne: So these deep emotional bonds can occur between living things, and these bonds are adaptive for our survival. So in bonding with animals, you know humans create the sense of companionship and the social support and the non judgmental nature of an animal. Social support can not only help with our emotions, but you know, also provide an opportunity to increase interaction and engagement with other humans.
Neil: So perhaps it's unsurprising that animals used in health settings and for emotional support isn't new either. Back in the 1700s, a Quaker Run asylum in England encouraged patients to interact with the domesticated animals roaming the grounds. In the 1800's the founder of modern nursing, Florence Nightingale, was famed for tending to wounded soldiers at night with a light in her hand. She became known as the Lady with the lamp, but she also introduced Jimmy the tortoise as a ward pet to uplift their spirits. And in the 1960s, American child psychologist Boris Levinson wrote about the experience of bringing his pooch jingles into his work with kids. In an article called the Dog as Co therapist. But other psychologists weren't happy with the idea of a canine colleague and mocked Levinson asking if the dog shared his fees. Despite Levinson's detractors that animals have a positive impact on us, just seems obvious, right? Think about how much happier you feel after petting a cute dog or seeing a squirrel scurry up a tree. Once again. Dogs and other creatures are increasingly showing up in therapeutic settings. Like hospitals and senior homes. People are bringing emotional support pets on planes and trains to help soothe anxiety, and animals like horses and dogs are being used as part of therapy and coaching to help people process their trauma using various methods like at Hope Held by a Horse.
The Cancer Support Group uses a method called Equine Guide Coaching, which involves a trained coach facilitating the work between horse and participant. It can look quite different depending on the individual and their needs. When Suzanne went through the program, she had to build an obstacle course.
Suzanne: So we created a barrier there. Well, this is when I was diagnosed or this is when I had my surgery or this is when I went through my chemo and then we had no idea why we were doing this obstacle course. But then they handed us this 1000 pound animal and said OK, lead this horse through this course and you're thinking, are you kidding me? I don't know anything about horses. How am I going to make the horse jump over these hurdles that these obstacles that I've created and it's amazing how the horse will just come right with you and do that. And I think that that in itself was what brought my confidence back.
Neil: Suzanne says Gestalt helps you to bring you to an awareness you already had deep down, or that is just out of reach.
Suzanne: Experiential is what we call it experiential. If you experience something and if you experience it with 1000 pound animal, you're bound to, you know you're bound to remember it. I've I've seen horses wrap their head around somebody and give them hugs because they just see them, you know, so distraught they feel what we feel.
Neil: She says the horses know when you're being truthful or not and describes the process as.
Suzanne: Totally magical. You know, people will ask well. Well, what are? What are we going to do with your program? I'm like you just like the horses are magical. You just have to come and see because I, you know, to try and put it into words and to really help people understand. It's like it's something you have to witness.
Neil: But what is the science behind the magic Suzanne describes, and how solid is the evidence showing how time spent with animals can improve our mental or in some cases, physical health? It's these questions that prompted Purdue researcher Leanne Nieforth to switch her study focus.
Leanne: I wanted to be an equine surgeon that had been my dream and I had gotten involved in a nonprofit that provided equine assisted psychotherapy for children who had experienced trauma. So I was watching these kids come in with a variety of risk factors and you know, and really struggling in various parts of their lives. And then, you know, 6-8 weeks later, they seem to be thriving. The time I looked at my boss and mentor and said, you know what's happening here, what does the research say? I've always been a scientifically minded person and she said, you know, it's magic. You just put kids and horses together and voila, it's a miracle.
Neil: The experience changes Leanne's career. She now wants to know more about the interaction of humans and animals. It sets her on a research path.
Leanne: It may be magical, right to see these interventions work, but what's what's happening? What's the science behind it? What's the data behind it and how can we use that evidence to make the interventions better?
Neil: Today, Leanne heads up Purdue’s lab for human animal partnerships and interactions. Yes, that's the “happi” lab. I guess you would be pretty happy if your colleagues were animals.
Leanne: Many practitioners of canine and equine would call their or their animal partners, colleagues - for sure.
Neil: Leanne has done some studies on horse human interactions, including a program providing equine assisted psychotherapy to kids. The kids also spent time helping out on the farm with chores and got some vocational training alongside sessions with horse and therapist. They found interactions with the animals helped the kids build resilience. Create routine and learn how to legitimise their negative feelings. Horses can also model healthy human relationships. For example, if a horse doesn't want to do something, it might walk away.
Leanne: So learning how to ask for things right and if if the horse says no, then the horse says no right? And you have a conversation about consent and boundaries, right. So there's ways that we can kind of work with horses, which for many individuals can be quite safe because horses don't traumatize people, usually. People are usually traumatized by other people.
Neil: Horses are said to be particularly suited for use in these roles because they are prey and herd animals. That means they're really sensitive to their surroundings and to the feelings of those around them, and that therapists can look at their behavior for clues as to how their client is really feeling. So if a person says they're fine but has actually distressed, the horse will behave anxiously. This signals to the coach or therapist that they should dig deeper, for example. But it is still a relatively new field of research.
Leanne: So unlike something like physics, where you know the apple fell from the tree of very very long time ago, human animal interaction work really started to pick up in the 80s.
Neil: And lots of that research extols the benefits of animal human interaction. For instance, some influential research found that pet owners had much lower rates of mortality following heart attacks, and that interacting with dogs reduces stress and decreases blood. But other research suggests there is absolutely no difference between people who own pets and those who don't. Some studies even found that pet owners were more likely to suffer things like anxiety ulcers and panic attacks, and the research of effects of animal assisted therapies on our health and well-being aren't. As clear cut as they might seem at first either. A number of studies link therapy dog visits with positive impacts for mind and body in hospital patients, but one of the largest trials found that weekly visits with therapy dogs didn't show reduced stress and anxiety compared to those in the control group who didn't receive such visits.
Leanne: If you think about the last, you know 40 years or so as kind of the the entirety of the research we have in this area and we're relatively young and with that many of the initial studies were anecdotal.
Neil: Another problem is that study sample sizes are small. And there is often no control group and that some things are difficult to control for, like a person's personality or a dog's temperament. So that makes it hard to know whether the outcome was caused by the experimental treatment and not by other variables, or in the case of animal assisted therapy, whether some of the effects are down to the coach or the facilitator working with the animal. This all makes the research more challenging.
Leanne: Recently there's been a big push and there are currently studies underway that are, you know, having these active control groups are having these rigorous design studies with randomized clinical trials and trials that are comparing mainstream evidence based models for trauma with animal-assisted intervention models for trauma. So we're growing in this area and it's exciting to see that. So hopefully in the next you know, 5 to 10 years, we'll have a stronger evidence base to stand on for sure.
Neil: Leanne uses mixed methods in her studies, so a mixture of interviews and surveys, but also looking at things like the body's reaction to stressors to get a holistic picture. Recently, Leanne and other Purdue researchers conducted a controlled clinical trial of the impact of service dogs on veterans. With post traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, the dogs are trained to mitigate symptoms of anxiety. That individuals with PTSD might have, by applying pressure, so leaning against the person or resting their head in their lap to ground them or divert their attention.
Leanne: Many individuals that experience PTSD have hyper vigilance, so you know they're always hyper aware of their surroundings. So for example, if they go to the grocery store or even to an ATM, right, you have to face, you need to reach to the top shelf to get your box of macaroni. You don't know what's going on behind you. So the dogs are trained to face behind and kind of watch your back in a way that they can alert you if someone is coming.
Neil: The study included a group of veterans with a service dog and those on the wait list for one.
Leanne: And we had everyone get up in the morning and give us saliva samples at three different time points. And the reason for this was to capture what's called the cortisol awakening response.
Neil: Cortisol is a hormone that plays a crucial role in the body's response to stress. Basically, individuals without PTSD have a peak in cortisol about 30 minutes after they wake. It then drops off quickly.
Leanne: Whereas individuals with PTSD have a dysregulated cortisol awakening response, oftentimes not always, but often times this is blunted. So instead of having that peak of cortisol, it's much shallower of a curve.
Neil: The study found the veterans who had service dogs for three months had a more normal cortisol awakening response than the wait list. Loop which indicated the dogs were affecting the veterans on a physiological level, Leanne says she has spoken to veterans about how the service dogs were benefiting them psychologically, but also in their day-to-day lives.
Leanne: I had one veteran actually multiple share. You know that they had plans to end their lives and then they looked at their dog and said not to. And that kind of changed the trajectory. You know, I've had family share that the dog, you know, brought a very broken family back together. I've had veterans share that, you know, they can go support their kids at the soccer game or at the movie theater or, you know, at Disneyland. Disney World, right, because of their dog, you know they can attend family events and weddings. They can go into public spaces.
Neil: But Purdue’s surveys of veterans and their families on having a service dog did reveal some challenges. Veterans cited unexpected difficulties travelling with their dog or getting unwanted attention from strangers. Some spouses reported extra caregiving burdens because they had to look after the new addition to the household. So more hoovering or vet appointments etc. Leanne says information like that is important because it can help prepare for the commitment of having a dog and manage their expectations. In some cases, the interventions just don't work out.
Leanne: I think as a researcher, you know it's important to acknowledge that animal assisted interventions or human animal interactions are not beneficial to everyone. There are people who, you know this doesn't work for, people who don't like animals, and that's OK and I think you know, a lot of times we're like, how could you not like a dog? But, you know, some people don't. And that's totally fine.
Neil: Standardized definitions are also important for the safety of clients and the animals involved.
Leanne: You know, in talking about language and descriptions, you know, horse therapy sounds good, but horses aren't therapists, right? They don't have counseling degrees or occupational therapy degrees. And I think that's important to think about for the welfare of them, too, right. That's a big expectation to put on something that doesn't have any training, nor perhaps any understanding, depending on who you talk to. Right. Horses are very intelligent creatures and have thoughts, feelings and emotions of their own. And perhaps we don't understand their thought processes, but it is really important to recognize that in order to call it therapy, there has to be a human therapist present.
Neil: Since Suzanne took over hope held by a horse, she's made a few changes to the organization. They've switched focus to group work with the horses. To encourage more relationship building and ongoing support after the weekend long programs, they've also opened up to people with all kinds of cancers, not just breast cancer. And they plan to hold courses for caregivers soon too.
Suzanne: When my sister came here from Pittsburgh and was helping me through it, I mean she was pretty traumatized, too. This is her baby sister that's going through this. She didn't know what was going to happen to me. You know, so there's a lot that she goes through on a different level because she's always trying to be chipper and happy and, you know, trying to because she doesn't want to show me she's scared because then I'll get more scared. So there's a lot that she suppresses and hides as all caregivers do. So there's a lot of trauma that they can work through, too.
Neil: Right now they have about 60 people on the wait list for programs which they hold once a month. Participation and accommodation are free because Suzanne and the team fundraised to cover all of that. A grand total of $5000 for a weekend program for a group of 6.
Suzanne: We get so much out of it knowing that we are making a difference and we are helping in some way, shape or form, you know little or small or big, who knows. But we are making a difference for these people.
Neil: But Suzanne's also doing this work for the people she has lost along the way. Of the four close friends who went through the program together initially, only she and Myra remain.
Suzanne: Sonya, same type of cancer as me and her spread to her spine and her stomach. And. And we lost her too.
Neil: Theresa, the first woman Suzanne sat with that chemo, was re diagnosed with breast cancer at the end of 2019, just at the same time Suzanne was taking over Hope, Held by a Horse.
Suzanne: I remember the phone call and when she told me, you know, and I'm, I'm just like dropping to the floor and just devastated that I'm hearing this. And I said, what do you need from me? Do you need me to show up with bells on? And she just laughed. She just laughed and she said no. Just don't treat me different. And I said OK and she says, but if I need the bells, I'll let you know. That was always a joke between us, yeah.
Neil: Theresa died in June 2020.
Suzanne: So I you know, I I think I do this selfishly, maybe I do it for myself, but I do it for Sonia and Theresa as well. You know, I know that if they were here, they would be on my board and they would be supporting me 100%. So I know they're they're behind me with it.
Neil: This week's episode of Living Planet was produced by Jennifer Collins. It was edited and mixed by me. Neil King, our sound engineers were Gerd Georgii and Jürgen Kuhn. Did you like this episode? Please do let us know. Send us a voice message or e-mail to livingplanet@dw.com and while you're online. Why not check out our DW podcast YouTube channel for bonus content? Living Planet is brought to you by DW in Bonn, Germany.